The Covers Thread

[Jordypord]

Haha there could be! Nah ill try and make it as much my own as I can, mind you I have been told my soloing style can be quite satch-esque which is cool, im really not bothered about being called a copy cat guitar player or whatever, i just like playing for playing sakes, although someone said i had a style like kirk hammet once, years ago, which i took great offence to i cant stand that guys playing, the most overrated player in history imo!

[SalsaC]

My soloing style has kinda evolved Tony Iommi-Adrian Smith-Kirk Hammet-John Petrucci-Mikael Åkerfeldt through the years. Most of the Hammet stuff I've forgotten and I guess I sound like Petrucci/Åkerfeldt nowadays for the most part. I suppose it's only natural that you sound like someone else, at least until you have so many influences that you are a mix of everything.

[Jordypord]

Adrian Smith! Now theres a guitar player, him and Dave Murray (i like janick gers to, but just dont rate him as much as the other two) are my favourite guitarists beside Paul Gilbert, i mean Iron Maiden are my favourite band, i learned to play guitar by playing their songs! My playing probably is more like theres than anybody else, but nobody mentions it since they really dont get mentioned as much as other guitarists, but they have every reason to be!

[SalsaC]

I started out with Black Sabbath and Iron Maiden, but Dave Murray's solos were usually way over my head back then so I picked up more stuff from Adrian. They are legends, no doubt.

 

Paul Gilbert is the man, he pretty much knows the instrument inside-out and also knows how to teach it to others. His instructional videos still provide me with hours of head-scratching, but I'm getting there!

[Harry]

That was a gorgeous cover Pekka. I ended up watching it for about half an hour non stop. I haven't got much to add to that really, I liked the arrangement and the playing, good stuff.

That shit wants to make me pick up classical guitar seriously.

Part of me still wants to learn classical guitar, but I know it'll never happen. I guess it doesn't bother me though.

 

As far as music theory goes, I'm virtually self taught on that (as I am with guitar and bass guitar also).

I'd say I have a pretty good grounding in modes of the major scale for many key signatures, and I've made an effort to at least learn the major scale (ionian mode) and natural minor (Aeolian mode) for every single key signature.

 

I notice there are some key signatures rock guitarists avoid using, or they detune their guitar in order to use those tunings so they don't have to relearn those patterns in other position.

This is for a number of reasons, one obvious one being so open string notes can used.

What I did notice was weird, was why some guitarists would learn B natural minor, C natural minor and C# natural minor, BUT then they would avoid learning Eb natural minor, Bb natural minor and F natural minor, because they are in the middle of certain keys and "aren't as easy to work with".

So it just struck me, if guitarists learn C minor natural which is in between C# and B, why not just go and learn those other "in between" key signatures as well?

 

Once I learnt those "in betweens' it made a lot of stuff easier.

For certain songs where stuff is tuned down one semitone, I don't have to anymore because I've learnt to just play it in the standard.

Granted, I can understand some songs go below the low E note and you might have no choice but to tune down, but I have a 7 string guitar so I'm at an advantage there I guess, no need to tune it down.

 

 

I gotta say, knowing theory made writing music so much easier, and instead of trying to fish around for notes that work, I can instantly just grab notes that work, because I understand chord/scale relationships.

Also has helped me when I'm learning songs too, because I understand why stuff is happening in terms of theory.

That said, I'm hardly the master of theory.

I was planning to start learning jazz a while ago, but I just gave up, mostly because I wasn't willing to learn the massive amount of theory that goes with it.

Again, I'm not bothered, as really I just want to get as good as I can at as many styles of rock music as possible (from pop rock to technical death metal and all in between really) and if I had to throw in learning classical and jazz in as well, my social life will be entirely gone and it's not something I'm willing to sacrifice.

[Harry]

Geezus, some weird stuff happens when I'm asleep/doing other stuff, you guys nearly cover a whole new page without me:rotfl:

Nope, Paul Gilbert doesn't do lessons. He's such a high profile guitarist in rock guitar that he would be bombarded with so many people wanting lessons off him anyway, so I can understand why he doesn't.

Shane Gibson from Korn does though. He has a great sense of humor as from what I can see when he posts on sevenstring.org (it's awesome having major talents in a huge band posting on a forum you post at), and he's just a wicked insane player. His talent and skill certainly extends well beyond what he shows while playing with Korn, that's for sure.

Chris Broderick does lessons, but they'll send you broke unless you're quite well off. I think it's something like 35 US dollars per half hour, which even in the US is quite expensive for lessons.

 

And fuck yeah to Always with Me, Always with You. That is definitely one of the best instrumental rock guitar songs ever. It's so tasteful and memorable and deceptively difficult. It's not until you try to play it do you realize how difficult it is, because the melodies are just so awesome and tasty you just get so stuck into the music and forget anything to do with technicality.

 

Kirk Hammett is shit, really, he is.

He has about 2 good guitar solos. Even his good ones aren't that great.

I like the Fade to Black outro solo, but he almost ruins it with putting in out of context E natural minor notes.

It's like he's trying to say "Guize I can haz put jazzy style in my playing" and failing epically.

Get even get my started on his vibrato, you'll be here forever listening to me talk about how SHIT it is.

 

I think my style has definitely gravitated towards a more Adrian Smith and Mikael Åkerfeldt style too, lead guitar wise. Not so much Petrucci though, I'd say for the virtuoso guys I'm more influenced by Buckethead, Paul Gilbert and Joe Satriani.

Adrian Smith has always been my fave Maiden guitarist. Amazing vibrato and great phrasing.

[SalsaC]

That was a gorgeous cover Pekka. I ended up watching it for about half an hour non stop.

Flattering

 

Again, I'm not bothered, as really I just want to get as good as I can at as many styles of rock music as possible (from pop rock to technical death metal and all in between really) and if I had to throw in learning classical and jazz in as well, my social life will be entirely gone and it's not something I'm willing to sacrifice.

That, not so much I can assure you that I have a social life as well!

 

I don't get those guys who say that knowing music theory will only hinder their writing I mean, it doesn't require much brainpower to realize that music theory is NOT a set of rules telling what you should or shouldn't do. It's merely a tool that helps you understand why things sound the way they do. Personally, it has helped me in thinking about stuff that I would've never thought about otherwise.

[Harry]

Fuck you, that actually was a compliment on your cover, I'm not trying to be gay or anything, it actually was really good dude.

 

And anyway, the time you spend on classical guitar, is time I spend on audio engineering.

Imagine trying to cram in electric guitar, bass guitar, classical AND audio engineering, not gonna work man. Audio engineer stuff sometimes consumes easily 6 hours of my day, if not more, on my non social days. Really don't think classical guitar is gonna fit in that schedule:rotfl:

 

I'm not sure if you directed the theory thing at me, or just people in general, but I can assure you I entirely agree with you.

I can certainly say I think Joe Satriani, as someone who is practically walking music theory dictionary I imagine, is far more expressive than say, Bob Dylan, who knows squat about music theory.

Theory can only enhance your possibilities and the only reason why it can become robotic and sterile is because of the individual lacking the imagination to be able to use it in a way that's interesting and ultimately musical to a listener.

 

I'm not gonna deny my relative lack of theory knowledge compared to you probably limits me a little bit.

But hell, I understand modes of the major scale very well, I understand chord/arpeggio inversions, I understand counterpoint, chord/arpeggio substitution to an extent, I do know the harmonic minor scale and the phrygian dominant scale which is the 5th mode of harmonic minor. I understand time signatures, and to an extent poly meters, I understand tritones and how they fit within a certain key.

No I don't know the melodic minor scale, nor a bunch of other concepts useful to jazz and/or classical, but I imagine with the stuff I do know, it means I'm able to bunch within pretty much any genre of rock and metal, and given how many different sub genres there are of each, there's a hell of a lot of different creative possibilities for me as a musician.

And yep, theory did help me break out of creative ruts very frequently.

So yes, I will admit it does mean I'm rather restricted from jazz and classical, at least composing that stuff anyway, I could obviously still play some Bach on electric guitar if I wanted to and be able to understand at least some of the concepts behind the music.

So really, I don't think it's a loss if I can't compose classical and jazz, since it's not what I'm aiming to do anyway.

[SalsaC]

Melodic minor scale is the harmonic minor with a major 6th. *bows*

[Jordypord]

Ive tried to learn theory, but couldnt because it came across to me more like school work, something id have to study and revise,I cant be arsed with that, and guitars always been my way of getting away from that shit, i can see the benefits of learning theory, but i can also see the drawbacks, but hell its my firm belief that there is no right or wrong way to going about guitar, each to their own I say.

[SalsaC]

If it feels like a drag, then you're right, you're better off without it. For me, it comes sort of naturally, so I don't really need to revise anything. I guess the stuff sticks with me when I hear and see how it effects the music. :/

 

Actually, it's more like just knowing the names for stuff, I'm sure most musicians have theory in their head, but maybe just on a subconscious level. As in, they know how scales work and what chords go together and such...they just don't know that the chords are part of the same harmonized scale etc....

[Jordypord]

Yeah i can really the see the advantages of it, but meh, ive had no problems so far, creatively speaking, without knowing any theory. But yeah i think these days i dont think the big argument with guitar is theory v non theory, i think its solo v non solo, so many bands these days going out of their way to make sure theres no soloing/individual showing off in their bands just now, saying it takes away from the music and all that shite, well im sure the likes of AC/DC, Led Zeppelin and Iron Maiden with their guitar solo in every song and 100 million + album sales each would disagree...

 

Wow i dunno how i came out with this little rant

[SalsaC]

I'm sure every single blues artist ever agrees with the solo taking something away from the song.

 

I don't think solos take away anything from a song. I think they can bring a breath of fresh air to a song, and some of, what I consider, the most powerful moments in music are, in fact, guitar solos.

 

EDIT:

Spirit Carries On= FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU-

[Harry]

Melodic minor scale is the harmonic minor with a major 6th. *bows*

 

I know THAT man:rotfl:

What I meant, when I listed what theory I knew, was that I actually know how to apply those concepts to music.

I mean, I know the lydian b7 scale, the altered scale and all sorts of crap like that, but I'm not really familiar with the patterns in many different key signatures and I don't really understand how they connect to chords.

I mean, I probably only know how to play the melodic minor scale in the key of E on the two E strings and that's about it really.

Basically, it's like a writer knowing all these rules of grammer but not knowing how to really write a book with them.

Sure I might know these scales, but ultimately they aren't useful to me and they are nothing other than mechanical devices that I can't apply in a musical fashion.

 

 

 

Actually, it's more like just knowing the names for stuff, I'm sure most musicians have theory in their head, but maybe just on a subconscious level. As in, they know how scales work and what chords go together and such...they just don't know that the chords are part of the same harmonized scale etc....

 

Sort of like Mikael Åkerfeldt then really:rotfl:

[SalsaC]

Yeah, you know what it is now that I told you, amirite?

 

And yeah, Mikael was the one I had in mind.

[Harry]

Ive tried to learn theory, but couldnt because it came across to me more like school work, something id have to study and revise,I cant be arsed with that, and guitars always been my way of getting away from that shit, i can see the benefits of learning theory, but i can also see the drawbacks, but hell its my firm belief that there is no right or wrong way to going about guitar, each to their own I say.

 

I was actually under the impression you did know theory when I first watched your Miz Biz cover about a month ago, from seeing you play that guitar solo on there.

I still really enjoy watching that video, mostly for the performance.

But there's also that really amusing and cheesy factor of when you hear the crowd cheering from the song, but all you see is just this guy by himself in a room playing along to the song:rotfl:

Don't take that the wrong way, I just mean it's so cheesy I really like it haha

[Harry]

Just another comment on theory, while we're at it.

I did notice once I learnt it, it helped my communication with other musicians enormously (in a musical setting, I don't mean a social setting lol).

When a guy says to me "play A major 7 arpeggios over this A chord", instead of having to fumble around and ask what the hell he is talking about, I can just get on with it and do it.

For me, initially anyway, learning theory was hardly a fun thing Jordan, I can tell ya that.

What i did figure though, spend one month doing some boring theory and you'll forever have more musical ideas that will just open up to you. So in retrospect, I'm glad I did end up getting off my ass and studying theory.

I'm probably just lucky I was blessed with good long term memory and generally never need to revise any theory once I've been through it well enough.

As long as I start applying it in a musical way ASAP, it just sticks with me, and I totally forget about the mechanical, mundane aspects of it and just make music really.

 

As for guitar solos, well to be honest, I don't totally agree with "I don't think solos take away anything from a song".

It's true for many songs and many genres of music, yeah it works well, but for many other songs and genres, it doesn't work at all.

Sure, I don't mind the likes of Dream Theater and Symphony X, but I find myself listening to that kind of music far less and less now to be honest and when I do pop on metal, I think ultimately I'm coming full circle with where my original interest in metal came from, which was the riffs. I honestly cannot even remember the last time I've heard Symphony X, it was probably about 6 months ago, and I haven't gone out of my way to listen to them again. Great band, great music, but it's kinda lost it's appeal.

As a result I'm starting to feel that the whole traditional prog metal thing was a bit of a fleeting thing for me. Well okay, I'll probably still listen to Images and Words and Awake (even if nowhere near as often as I used to) since I love those albums dearly, but I'm really just into stupid heavy bands now, like Gojira, all that groove metal stuff and a lot of death metal stuff and they feel like they'll have much more long term lasting appeal for me.

I mean, I don't think endless guitar solo would be appropriate at all for Gojira. It's all about the power of the grooves, and it grooves so fucking hard it doesn't need guitar solos to add to it anyway.

Same for a lot of Meshuggah, for the songs that don't have guitar solos, it doesn't bother me, because first and foremost, it's about the grooves and the riffs.

 

I'm also quite big on post metal these days, as well as some doom/droney stuff, and guitar solos would ruin most of that stuff almost instantly. Imagine guitar solos in Explosions in the Sky, just dropped right in there. It would sound absolutely fucking gross and totally out of context and would be the equivalent of musical masturbation.

Let's face it, most "normal" rock and metal is over the top, and in your face. I mean, fuck, Paramore is basically Hayley screaming in your face, Iron Maiden has Bruce yelling at you and Adrian's and Dave's guitar right in your fucking face, Guitar solos just vying for your attention.

Death metal bands with a drunken hobo of a vocalist growling at you.

It's not laid back, it's just right in front of you saying "just rock the fuck out to me, anything less and you're a pussy".

Yes, exaggeration, but you can see my point.

I've just gotten to the point in my music listening life where I need music that is the total anti thesis of that stuff because I just can't always be in the mood for "normal" rock and metal, and that's where (starting from post metal and then I found those other genres) post metal (and post rock too) really came in for me.

It's all just very much based on textures and atmosphere, and allows you to just kinda chill out to it, and not have to feel you're having any riffs shoved in your face.

[SalsaC]

That's true, of course, there are contexts where it just doesn't work. But then again, the same could be said about anything else as well. What I'm saying is that it's stupid to calculate things beforehand, like "we won't have any guitar solos because they are for showing off/an outdated novelty". I'm not sure what Metallica was thinking before St. Anger, but yeah Because there ARE people out there who think that an instrumental solo is one of the stupidest things ever invented, and I just don't understand them.

[SalsaC]

But there's also that really amusing and cheesy factor of when you hear the crowd cheering from the song, but all you see is just this guy by himself in a room playing along to the song:rotfl:

Don't take that the wrong way, I just mean it's so cheesy I really like it haha

I thought that was actually one of the best things about the video. The atmosphere was soooooo much thicker than it would've been with the studio version. I never payed any thought to the fact that Jordan's playing alone in his room.

[Jordypord]

Haha yeah the live version really adds something, more energy, or maybe i was just wanting some false recognition My band actualy recorded some of our songs live and we added in some stadium sounds

 

Yeah see id love to be able to do that, you know someone telling me to do something fancy like you mentioned Harry, and just be able to do it, but it comes down to...I cant be arsed, guitars always been about having fun and jamming out songs to me! Which of course you can do if you know theory to, but im not willing to put that extra bit of effort in Ive never had any problem being creative with solos etc anyways, just goof around untill i find something that sounds good, and ive done that for so long i know where the notes are anyways, so its not a problem when improvising.

 

And yeah I agree that there are some types of music or songs that dont suit solos, but Its these bands that go out of their way to stop showing off or whatever, thats what bugs me. I think paramore's a good example of this, there are some perfect opertunities for decent guitar solos in some songs. I dunno if Josh is capable of doing it, but right now the rest of the band excluding hayley I think are largely viewed, except by the more dedicated fans, as more of a backing band, and know wonder as they pretty much play like a backing band! If Josh let rip a face melting solo once in a while im sure he'd take a bit of attention off Hayley

[SalsaC]

I'd love to see Josh tear away a guitar solo! Hell, I can understand if they can't be arsed to put any of that on their albums, but I think it would be a nice twist to have him play a proper guitar solo live for maybe just one song.

 

I actually think he should replace his Misery Business "solo" with Jordan's. Now that would be a sight to behold.

[Jordypord]

I think he should, then i could sue him and buy this http://www.jacksonguitars.com/news/index.php?display_article=52 :hyper:

[SalsaC]

Hell yeah!

 

...you think Josh is reading this?

[Harry]

I must say the best thing about getting a 7 string is that I don't GAS for 6 strings much anymore. And since there are so much less 7 strings available than 6 strings, I spend less time drooling over guitars I see

My mate has a Jackson DK2-S, bloody amazing guitar for the price. Plays so nicely and sounds excellent.

 

I only just realized I forgot to mention why I never ended up putting that Fences cover up:shifty:

I ended up being unhappy with a part of it, and my dad has moved to New South Wales, and brought the digital video camera with him, so I didn't have a chance to re do it.

If things go to plan, when my mom comes to visit me this weekend she'll have the camera if I remember to ask her to bring it before hand and I'll finally get something happening.

Probably wont actually be Fences, since I haven't even played it for about a month now though.

 

As I said a while back, seeing Jordan's Miz Biz cover inspired me to learn the song and do my own cover of it. I ended up learning it by ear, since tabs are for pussies:shifty: well okay, it wasn't a massive challenge to learn by ear anyway lol.

Having a 7 string means I'll be able to hit that (as you so famously put it Pekka) that "crushingly low" C# power chord without having to fuck with the tuning of the guitar.

Having active pickups now really helps to make it sound much clearer and defined than it did with the stock passive pickups.

I've written at least 5 different guitar solos for the song, but admittedly 3 of them are really over the top shred fests, that while fun to play and still reasonably tasteful (I've never been able to write those guitar solos that are non stop shred for the whole thing, that just doesn't appeal to me) they are probably not quite so fitting in the context:p I think (well no, not I think, actually will) I'll go the route of the most melodic and memorable solo I wrote, or rather, semi wrote. You'll see what I mean when you see what I meant by that.

 

I do totally agree the studio album (and the live) solo from Miz Biz is quite underwhelming. It's not bad by any means, it fits the song, but that's all it does, fits the song, whereas a great solo will usually elevate a song, as Pekka sorta said.

That said, I like most of the guitar parts in Paramore anyway, I can't ask for more in most the songs. I agree with a different live Miz Biz solo, that would be awesome.

A different solo for Fences would have been cool too, that is another one that is kinda, just fits the song, but doesn't make it better type of solo.

 

And do you know some people think guitar solos are the worst thing ever?

It's cos of this guy:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z0vt-D7ncs

 

I watch his videos about once a month for a good laugh and to remind myself that unlike him, I can actually write a decent song, that my phrasing isn't as absolutely fucking terrible as his, and that I actually understand if you sweep pick too fast, it loses the effect because you can't actually hear the melody in the sweeps.

Yeah, I can't pick anywhere near as fast, but he is so fucking sloppy, I'd rather hear someone picking at a moderate speed perfectly, with a a good choice of notes, than someone trying to play as fast as possible and failing epically, technically and musically.

So at least that's one good thing that comes out of people that live for nothing but playing as fast as possible, it makes you feel better about your own abilities:rotfl:

 

His vibrato is vomit worthy too, urghh.

 

 

Now, this is how you ACTUALLY play guitar folks:

 

 

 

A fucking great song, simply drenched in emotion, with melodies that you'll actually remember.

Technique is definitely not all about speed, and that video proves it.

It's a highly technical song, but he just does it in a way that you forget that aspect and just listen to it and enjoy the music.

His control over intonation is just astounding, and I gotta say, it's actually his bending and vibrato that catches my attention first, before his actual ability to play fast.

He may not be a fast picker, but he always hits every note perfectly when he picks, which to me is really impressive even if it's not fast.

[Jordypord]

Ive always wanted to try a seven string guitar, ive played my mates 6 string bass, which i suppose in a way is kinda similar due to the low B string, although clearly nothing like the playability of a guitar.

 

But yeah hell with 7 strings, or 8, i want 11 like this thing

 

I know its a bass, but its pretty cool, and its an awesome cover to.