The music theory/techniques discussion/ helpful tips thread

[Harry]

Well I figured I should start this, since there are some people on here just beginning to learn instruments and stuff, so would be a good way to help others out.

Discuss theory, technique on instruments, vocals, whatever.

Let's get better at our craft/s folks.

[the1]

I've been practising economy picking, string skipping. I need to learn to sweep more than 3 string shapes.

 

I also am gonna save some money for vocal lessons soon. I really want to learn to sing, but don't feel comfortable doing it myself until I have had some hands-on advice.

[Harry]

Interesting, I've never really practiced economy picking properly. My dad bought me this Frank Gambale (Australian jazz fusion virtuoso and of interesting note he used to have his own Ibanez signature guitar based on the S series, they are fairly rare guitars too I believe)) DVD called Monster Licks and Speed Picking a while ago.

 

It's basically pretty much all about economy picking and sweep picked arpeggios done in a fashion that apparently makes it easier to execute for the picking hand.

If you want to learn about economy picking, it's quite good actually, if you can look past how horribly 80s the clothes he is wearing in the film.

What was weird, was that I had no idea it was even called economy picking before seeing this film, but intuitively I had been using that technique before seeing it anyway, simply because some picking licks were easier using bits of economy picking.

 

I ended up not really using much from the film in the end, because the problem is a lot of the sweep arpeggio shapes he uses have different rhythmic divisions to the standard 3 and 5 note shapes we are so used to (due to the fact his sweeps use less notes). If you want to learn how to apply that shit to your music, cool, but if you're like me and like to use arpeggios that fit within the rhythmic divisions that are more "equal" and easier to work with, I would skip the sweep picking section.

But yeah, as I said, if you seriously want to understand economy picking and possibly want to start learning some jazz fusion stuff, there is no DVD better than that.

I'm a rock/metal player, so screw fusion (even if I do enjoy listening to, fuck learning all the theory in order to be able to play it )

 

Me personally? I use what's called "directional picking" (I found out what that term was about 12 months after I started even using the technique lol).

Basically a mix of alternate and economy picking, because I've found some licks are just easier if you use both picking techniques rather than trying to use one or the other. I never use pure economy picking for anything, ever, but for some licks I use strict alternate picking (such as single string ascending/descending runs).

As for sweeps, I've pretty much got my 3 string sweeps down good, but the 5 string stuff, I still screw up from time to time and need to work on getting those more accurate and precise.

 

Not sure if you're a fan of the band, Between the Buried and Me, and if you're not, it doesn't matter, just go grab their song "Selkies:The Endless Obsession" purely for the instrumental section which you should pretty much like anyway, cos even people that don't like the band at least like that part of the song. Aside from the nice chord progression (some cool stacked 5th chords ) and pretty melodies, there is a killer sweep picked solo at the end.

I quit sweep picking for ages, and when I came back to learning it again, I used this song to help me relearn sweeping.

Learn it by ear if you can (I did, but that's because in the time I could have been getting drunk and getting laid a lot more, I was at home doing ear training exercises, dear me) and if not, I may be able to tab it out for you, since I know that whole sweep picking section.

Oh and to be fair I used software to slow the song down by 30 per cent to learn it by ear.

It's got 3 note patterns, 5 note patterns, as well as some 6 string arpeggios patterns, so get learning. Also, can you do sweep picked arpeggios with tapped notes? Well, in this solo you can learn to do that too.

The song is played on guitars tuned to C# standard, but if you're like me and want to challenge yourself, play it in standard tuning (in your case, E A D G B E) and you gotta stretch a little further, but it's worth it and it's easily doable, since it's all in A Major, and the sweeps shouldn't be out of reach stretch wise at all, unless you have majorly fucked up small fingers lol.

Want to challenge yourself further? Get a program, change the pitch down 2 semi tones, and then you gotta play the song in G major, and some of the sweeps actually do get real tricky at that stage.

I'd say stick with the normal key of the song and standard tuning for now, heh.

 

As for string skipping.........screw that, cos I ain't no Paul Gilbert.

I did actually try some licks (cos I was playing guitar as well as writing this post) and my string skipping is just sloppy as heck, so I'll work on that a bit later when I can be bothered.

[the1]

See, seeing as I come from more of a punk guita background, a part of me just wants to say "fuck this stuff", but I'm only gonna get better if I try haha. And I want to be able to shred well rather than just partly.

 

Synyster Gates (A7X) took alot from Frank Gambale, so maybe I should check it out.

[Andalix]

Sorry I may sound dumb but you'd like to learn to play guitar like that?

 

I'm just curious and want to know everything about playing guitar.

[Harry]

^Correct.

Although I know James digs AX7 and Synyster Gates, and no offense or anything, but those sweep picking videos with Synyster are just sloppy. Pretty bad muting technique in that video Betty posted, quite frankly. There are shit loads of people on the guitar forum boards I go to that can sweep way better than that.

Fine if you're a bedroom guitarist, but not really excusable when you're supposed to be a pro level player. Alexi Laiho from Children of Bodom is similar, pretty sloppy. Sometimes I feel like those guys try to play stuff beyond their real abilities. Either that or. However I will give Synster some credit for at least trying sweep picking patterns that are not run of the mill, kudos to that

He also doesn't really explain the concepts that well either IMO. If you want to learn about sweeping, there a bucketlead of videos done by other guys that have studied at the Guitar Institute of Technology on the internet, surely. I tend to trust these videos, because they know their shit inside out, they are normally very precise and super clean players and know how to get the point across well when they speak.

Also, don't watch the fucking Dragonforce videos either, for fuck sake those guys really can't play well. I've seen them live, they put on amazing and super fun show, but they are sloppy as shit guitar players and are not the shred heros they are made out to be. Half the reason they play like that, is because they wear their guitars too low, seriously. I saw them live, I was relatively close to the front of the stage and could see Herman struggling to play stuff because the guitar was too low for the stuff he needs to play. Which brings me to another point

 

WEAR YOUR GUITAR AT A REASONABLE HEIGHT IF YOU PLAN TO PLAY TECHNICAL STUFF.

I cannot stress that enough, seriously. I know people who have had to quit playing guitar for months and even years because they fucked their wrists by constantly straining them by playing the guitar too low.

Sure, when I play Paramore or some hardcore punk/post hardcore stuff I'll wear my guitar RELATIVELY low so I can swing the guitar around and rock out and pretend I'm playing on stage (while looking into a mirror, when no one else is in the room to see me be embarrassing rocking out so hard alone lol), but as soon as I play my normal material with my metal band, or I'm rocking some death metal stuff (or anything else that requires more technical prowess), the guitar gets raised up to the chest region, so I don't have to put my wrist in unncessarily straining angles/positions in order to stretch further.

It doesn't look very rock and roll, but I'd rather look less cool and be able to play in 30 years time, then be "cool" now and give myself tendinitis and Carpal Tunnel Sydrnome and not be able to play anymore.

If you ever feel you're straining your wrist, chances are, you most likely are, so raise that guitar higher.

[Andalix]

Thanks for the infos and advice. First I need to play guitar better than I do now. Okay, I've been playing guitar for 2 years but I hadn't gotten into it before but now I'm trying to learn all the stuff that needed to be a good player. I just want to show the world girls can play guitar as good as boys. But I don't think there's much difference.

You know, I have a classic guitar so I can't do that picking. Now I'm learning to twang each strings just to be precise. Seeing you two, you are already on a higher level than me so I think I need to learn a lot.

I think if I had an electric guitar I could do all the stuff. I want one so bad but as I don't have money and won't have for long I don't know when I'm able to buy one. It's rankling.

And rankling too that the school starts in September so I won't have as much time as I do now.

[the1]

Thats a shit vid of Syn. SHIT. But watch any recent live vids, and you can see how clean he plays now.

 

He also is a GIT student.

[Wildman]

Hey, I was wondering if someone could tell me the best way to switch from a basic chord to a barre chord. I've always had trouble with that, and there's always a delay in my transitions. I try to practice this all the time but I never seem to get it right.

[SalsaC]

Let's assume that you're strumming to a simple 4/4 beat with one down-up strum for every quarter note. Release the chord you're playing as soon as you've played the last down strum of the bar and leave the rest of the bar (one eighth note) for your fingers to find the next chord. While doing this, strum the open E and B strings to stop the flow of the song from messing up. E and B strings won't necessarily have much to do with the chord you're supposed to be playing but they tend to sit well enough with open D, A, G, C and E chords. This is the trick that you see in use EVERYWHERE, so it's not as much cheating as you may think. I think it even adds a little spice to the music.

 

In simpler words, don't worry about releasing the chord too early if you need time for your fingers to find the next chord. Playing the open E and B strings is not going to jump out of the music unless it takes you REALLY long to find the next chord. In that case, keep practicing.

 

If you need advice with two specific chords, tell me what they are and I'll look into it.

[Andalix]

Pekka, you helped me too. I also have problems with barre chords. Thanks a lot.

[SalsaC]

You're welcome! Ask away if you want to know anything else.

[Wildman]

^ Will do, thanks so much man. I'm gonna go and try to practice that now.

[Harry]

Thanks for the infos and advice. First I need to play guitar better than I do now. Okay, I've been playing guitar for 2 years but I hadn't gotten into it before but now I'm trying to learn all the stuff that needed to be a good player. I just want to show the world girls can play guitar as good as boys. But I don't think there's much difference.

You know, I have a classic guitar so I can't do that picking. Now I'm learning to twang each strings just to be precise. Seeing you two, you are already on a higher level than me so I think I need to learn a lot.

I think if I had an electric guitar I could do all the stuff. I want one so bad but as I don't have money and won't have for long I don't know when I'm able to buy one. It's rankling.

And rankling too that the school starts in September so I won't have as much time as I do now.

 

Lol I actually had to look in the dictionary to see what "rankling" meant, because I've never seen that word before, ever. It must be some word that Hungarians use more than native English speakers such as myself despite the fact we native English speakers use it as out first language lol.

 

 

So yes, my dumbass-ery aside, I got to the level of playing I'm at just practicing a lot really, I'm not a genius or anything.

If you have an IQ of at least 100 and you've got working fingers, there is nothing to stop you from getting really good. You want something? Go get it, it wont come to you, unless you're super lucky.

If getting better involves getting a job in order to fund guitar lessons, do it.

Don't look at it as "Ohh shit, some mundane, piece of shit job". Look at it in a more positive light, the means to an end and a good end at that.

Getting real good at guitar, means sacrifice and hard work, seriously.

If you're willing to do that, then you can make it, don't doubt yourself, because if anything, self doubt is the biggest barrier towards being the best you can be at something.

You have a classical guitar. It does not mean you can't start working on alternate picking exercises now. Sure, you cannot work on legato and sweep picking, nor two handed tapping on a classical guitar very effectively, but alternate picking can be done.

[SalsaC]

Legato is actually a fairly common technique in real classical guitar, so I don't see why it couldn't be practiced effectively. If anything, it will force the player to get the technique down absolutely correctly, or else it will be really difficult. Classical guitar players are not usually required to pick every single note in a fast run (depends on the composer, but you know, USUALLY), and the lightning speed picado technique is more common in the realm of flamenco guitar, anyway. In classical guitar, legato is used pretty much like in modern electric guitar.

 

I'd say start getting your legato technique under control as soon as you can. If you get it right on a classical guitar, electric guitar will be a breeze.

[Andalix]

Oh you're luckier Harry because you had to look up one word but for me I have to look up almost every word.

 

I've already realized those things you just said. You know sometimes my laziness is bigger than anything. But I'll try my best. Sorry now I can't write much.

[Harry]

Legato is actually a fairly common technique in real classical guitar, so I don't see why it couldn't be practiced effectively. If anything, it will force the player to get the technique down absolutely correctly, or else it will be really difficult. Classical guitar players are not usually required to pick every single note in a fast run (depends on the composer, but you know, USUALLY), and the lightning speed picado technique is more common in the realm of flamenco guitar, anyway. In classical guitar, legato is used pretty much like in modern electric guitar.

 

I'd say start getting your legato technique under control as soon as you can. If you get it right on a classical guitar, electric guitar will be a breeze.

 

You're right, of course. My dad (well, used to I guess) plays classical, and I noticed that too. I come from pretty much a strictly electric guitar background really, so can't say my classical guitar knowledge is not too great.

I did used to fuck around with ascending legato runs on my classical guitar, that was very manageable and clean (and fuck, even some two handed tapping I can do on classical guitars), but the lack of gain and compression on a classical guitar means certain legato patterns that are accessible on a electric guitar are not going to be possible on a classical guitar, period, no matter how good your technique. Which is not a bad thing at all in itself, because both are different instruments and should be looked at so, and have different expressive capabilities.

I have to stop thinking of legato in terms always in terms of Joe Satriani-esque runs, because yes legato is possible on classical, just not that kinda Satch stuff that I'm more familiar with as an electric guitarist.

[SalsaC]

Yes, I didn't have any certain patterns in my mind, more like the actual technique that goes into forming the legato. Hammer-ons and pull-offs.

 

Have you heard "Spanish Fly" by Eddie Van Halen? There's some acoustic tapping for you.

[Harry]

Even though they have a really camp/gay vibe to them, I have a soft spot for the first 2 Van Halen albums. I actually think Eddie is a much better rhythm guitarist than a lead player. Some of his solos didn't sound too good in the musical context, whereas he was always spot on and so groovy and inspiring with his rhythm stuff.

Indeed, "Spanish Fly" is a crazy song.

 

And yeah, that'll be a good suggestion for Betty, to just work on some simple hammer on/pull off exercises just say, using only her index finger and ring finger of her fretting hand at first and then gradually moving onto using 3 fingers on her fretting hand.

I'd say all 4, but honestly if you want to play 4 note/finger legato patterns, better to wait until you can get an electric guitar, it gets kinda hard on a classical, haha. Not impossible mind you, just I don't think it's that necessary to learn really, and hell honestly most guitarists get by on electric guitar using only 3 note per string picking/legato patterns.

I do use some 4 note per string patterns from time to time, but I'd say 90 per cent of the time I focus on 3 note per string stuff.

[Andalix]

Okay guys, you should watch these videos. The guy's skill is amazing I think.

Look at his face while he's playing the guitar. He feels the music.

 

 

The other vids are great too of course.

 

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZO6Pgvxdbs&feature=channel

 

Sorry I didn't know where to put them.

[Harry]

^The guy in the first 2 videos definitely has a lot of feel in his playing, as well as that dude with no right hand.

I used to be able to play Eruption, but I've since forgotten, it's been ages since I've last played it.

[Andalix]

Yeah when I was watching the last video I thought I would never be able to play guitar like him.

[Anavi]

ok i need help...can some of you do a tutorial on scales (all) ? or possiblly have a link to one

thanks in advance

[SalsaC]

I don't know how deep you want to delve into the theory of it all, but I'll conjure something up for ya.

 

Dictionary

sharp= # = one semitone higher

flat = b = one semitone lower

interval = a distance between two notes

semitone = for example, the interval from C to C#, or from the 3rd fret to the 4th fret on the A string.

whole-tone = for example, an interval from C to D. Or from G to A. = two semitones

 

 

What is a scale?

Scale is, basically, a sequence of notes. In western tonality, going from C to the next C that is located an octave higher, we have 12 different notes in our disposal. C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#, A, A# and B before we get to the next C. Remember that, for example, C# can also be written as Db and G# as Ab. These 12 notes are all one semitone apart. This scale is known as the chromatic scale, and it's probably the easiest to remember since it has every single note you can play with the piano or the guitar. As you might know, going this scale up and down, playing every note you can along the way isn't going to sound very musical, so that's why we have all the other scales that leave out certain notes of the chromatic scale to strive for a specific mood or atmosphere.

 

Major scale

This is one of the most common scales, and learning it comprehensively will help you when you get deeper into music. Unlike the chromatic scale, the major scale is not solely made out of notes one semitone apart. You can construct the major scale from the chromatic scale by only taking certain notes out of it, using these intervals:

whole-tone, whole-tone, semitone, whole-tone, whole-tone, whole-tone, semi-tone. Or, you can think of it in numbers: 2, 2, 1, 2, 2, 2, 1, the number meaning the amount of semitones.

Starting from C, we get the following notes: C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#, A, A# and B. Now we are just missing the last note, which is supposed to be one semitone apart from that B, so let's add the final C to get the C major scale! Now we have the notes C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C. The C major scale is easy to visualize on the piano, it's all the white keys. Ever heard the saying "keep away from the black keys, and you're set"? It comes from the fact that it's easy to sound good on the piano by playing the white keys since you're playing the notes of the C major scale and you're not going to hit a wrong note as long as you stay away from the black keys.

Let's do another one...how about the G major scale? Starting from G, the notes are G, G#, A, A#, B, C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F# and G. Now, how is any of this ever going to help me play anything on the guitar/piano you ask? We'll get into that later, but for now, loosen your throat so that I can shove this theory down it with more ease...

 

Minor scale

This is quite similar to the major scale, but the whole-tone/semitone business gets shuffled around a bit. The ingredients for the minor scale are whole-tone, semitone, whole-tone, whole-tone, semitone, whole-tone, whole-tone or 2, 1, 2, 2, 1, 2, 2. We'll construct the A minor scale now. A, A#, B, C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#, A. As you can see, the notes for the A minor scale are A, B, C, D, E, F, G and A. A striking resemblance to the C major scale, don't you think? That's right, the notes are the same, but they are in different order. If you play these notes up and down without making much sense, the a minor scale and the c major scale are going to sound just like the other. The difference is found in the tonal center, which is the root of the scale. In one, this is A, and in the other, it's C.

This is easier to do on the piano, but it's possible to do it on the guitar as well. I'll make a short tab for you to play so that you can see and hear what I'm talking about.

Example 1:

E||--------------------------|-----------------------|

B||--------------------------|-----------------------|

G||--------------------------|-----------------------|

D||--------------------------|-----------------------|

A||--------------5-----------|-----------------------|

E||--5--5--7--8-----8--7--5--|--3--5--7--8--5--------|

Example 2:

------------------------------|------------------------

------------------------------|------------------------

------------------------------|------------------------

------------------------------|------------------------

----------------8-------------|------------------------

--8--8--10--12-----12--10--8--|--7--8--10--12--8---

 

 

Example 1 is in A minor, and example 2 in C major. They are utilizing the same set of notes, and the actual pattern is really similar, but what makes the difference in the sound is the tonal center, the note where the melody ends, or "resolves", so to speak. This is the difference between the two scales. Because of this close relationship, A minor is known as the "relative minor scale" of C major.

 

Scale patterns for the guitar

Naturally, this won't help much unless you're already familiar with how the notes are laid out on the fretboard, so the easiest way to learn a scale on the guitar is by learning certain patterns. I'll show you one for G major:

--------------------------------------------------5--7--8-

B||------------------------------------ -5--7--8----------

G||-----------------------------4--5--7-------------------

D||--------------------4--5--7----------------------------

A||-----------3--5--7-------------------------------------

E||--3--5--7----------------------------------------------

You can see where the G notes are located on the pattern, and those are the tonal centers that will come useful once you are ready to tear away a guitar solo. Starting and ending short lines of improvisation in the tonal center of the scale will get you a long way in making your playing sound coherent and melodic. This is NOT what you SHOULD do, but it will help you until your musical ear is ready to take over.

What's great about the guitar is that these patterns are movable, as in, you can move them around the neck to make any major scale you want. Want an A major scale? Move it all up a whole-tone and voila!

--------------------------------------------------7--9--10--

B||-------------------------------------7--9--10---------

G||-----------------------------6--7--9----------------------

D||--------------------6--7--9------------------------------

A||-----------5--7--9---------------------------------------

E||--5--7--9-------------------------------------------------

 

Here's the pattern I use for the minor scale. This time, in the key of A minor.

 

--------------------------------------------------7--8--10--

B||---------------------------------------6--8--10----------

G||-----------------------------5--7--9---------------------

D||--------------------5--7--9------------------------------

A||-----------5--7--8---------------------------------------

E||--5--7--8------------------------------------------------

 

These are all 3-notes-per-string patterns because I believe these are the ones you should start with. Patterns like these are great picking exercises for both of your hands and are useful tools for soloing, but remember that you can extend these patterns into any direction you want as long as you know what you're doing, so I encourage you to start trying to find the notes of the scale outside the pattern as soon as you're comfortable with it. I'll show you a little tidbit of a Dream Theater song that shows how you can combine different patterns to create one seamless (and ridiculously fast) solo line.

 

 

|--3-| |--3-| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--|

S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S

E||------------------------------------------------|

B||------------------------------------------------|

G||------------------------------------------------|

D||----------------------------------------9-11-12-|

A||---------7-9-10---------9-10-12-9-10-12---------|

E||--7-9-10--------9-10-12-------------------------|

 

 

|--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--|

S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S

---------------------------------------------------------------|

---------------------------------------------12-14-15-12-14-15-|

----------9-11-12----------11-12-14-11-12-14-------------------|

--9-11-12---------11-12-14-------------------------------------|

---------------------------------------------------------------|

---------------------------------------------------------------|

 

 

|--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--|

S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S

--12-14-15----------14-15-17-17-15-14-------------------|

-----------14-15-17-------------------17-15-14----------|

-----------------------------------------------16-14-12-|

--------------------------------------------------------|

--------------------------------------------------------|

--------------------------------------------------------|

 

 

|--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--|

S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S

-----------------------------------------------------------------|

-----------------------------------------------------------------|

-----------------------------------------------------------------|

--16-14-12-------------------------------------------------------|

-----------16-14-12-------------------14-16-17----------16-17-19-|

--------------------15-14-12-14-15-17----------15-17-19----------|

 

 

|--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--|

S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S

--------------------------------------------------------|

--------------------------------------------------------|

-----------------------------------------------14-16-18-|

-----------14-16-17----------16-17-19-14-16-17----------|

--14-16-17----------16-17-19----------------------------|

--------------------------------------------------------|

 

 

|--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--|

S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S

-----------------------------------------------------------------|

-----------------------------14-15-17----------------------------|

-----------16-18-19-12-14-16-------------------------------------|

--16-17-19-------------------------------------17-19-21----------|

--------------------------------------------------------17-19-21-|

--------------------------------------17-19-21-------------------|

 

 

|--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--| |--3--|

S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S S

-----------------------------------------------19-22-21-|

--------------------------------------19-20-22----------|

--18-19-21----------18-19-21-18-19-21-------------------|

-----------17-19-21-------------------------------------|

--------------------------------------------------------|

--------------------------------------------------------|

 

 

E E E E Q.

--21b--21br------22b--L------||

-------------19--------------||

-----------------------------||

-----------------------------||

-----------------------------||

-----------------------------||

 

As far as I can remember, it never strays away from the B minor scale, but it doesn't exactly stay within one minor scale pattern either. This kind of freedom is what you should be striving for, but it'll only come with time and practice.

 

Other basic scales you should know are the minor and major pentatonic scales, the blues scale, the harmonic minor and a little later on, the diatonic modes, but I'll tell more about those later unless you find out about them on your own. Get Guitar Pro 5 as soon as you can, since it includes terrific tools for studying scales on your own.

[Anavi]

I don't know how deep you want to delve into the theory of it all, but I'll conjure something up for ya.

 

i don't know how deep i wanna go into LOL... basics would be fine ,thanks so much