Paramore: Strengths/Weaknesses

[aberk]

This is either going to result in a locked thread and my crucifixion by rabid fans, or provide some genuinely interesting viewpoints (I hope for the latter ).

 

For the background, I'm a nineteen year old male from the UK, I listen primarily to classic rock [Led Zeppelin, Jethro Tull, Thin Lizzy, Jimi Hendrix...] but you can just as easily find a slew of Sugababes, Beethoven, Metallica, Jimmy Eat World, The Pixies, Herbie Hancock, Arctic Monkeys and so on, lurking in my music library. I've been drumming for about eight years, and most of the music I like is based on its the technical level; There's nothing better than a bloody good solo. Of course, I should also point out some of the greatest music is also the most simple - it doesn't need to be especially complex for me to enjoy it.

 

Now that we're done with the preamble let me start by saying, I think Paramore are, quite frankly, mind blowing. As oxymoronic as it sounds, they also disappoint me greatly.

 

Hayley truly has talent bursting at the seams; too many bands now adays don't give enough weight to the vocals and the result is like nails on a chalkboard. Not only does she write [i presume she's the one who writes them, perhaps I'm wrong?] incredibly meaningful, and exciting lyrics, but she also applies them in very creative ways. For me, the vocals should always be like another instrument and she certainly uses her voice like one. I've only watched a handful of the live videos on youtube, and she's still impressive there so what more could you ask for?

 

Very few drummers from this genre [pop punk?] make me stand up and take notice, but Zac has a powerful groove and I very much like what he's doing. He's got the sort of energy I try to exhibit during my gigs, but I find it surprisingly lacking in a lot of who sit behind the skins.

 

For me, the band pretty much stops there. As harsh as it sounds, I think it's fair to say (from my perspective), 95% of the musical character of the band is derived from the vocals and the drums. Nothing turns me on more than a mouth watering bassline, but there's nothing very exciting happening in that respect. Perhaps it's indicative or limiting due to the type of music, but the fact it's so unnoticeable, makes it even more noticeable. Finally we have the guitar. Like I said above, there's nothing more delectable than a solo, and there just aren't any. I'm talking about proper guitar solos here; considering 'Misery Business', yes you could class the 'solo' part, as a 'solo' but it's not really a solo. Apologies for the patronising that is about to follow, but I'm guessing I don't need to elaborate on what should constitute a guitar solo - I can do if people feel I haven't been clear enough.

 

The main problem is that, although Paramore's songs are catchy as hell, have fantastic vocals and explosive drumming, there isn't the keystone in the middle [the solo?] to make it fit together. I certainly enjoy listening to them, but I can't really rate them very highly because of the reasons I've just explained. I would consider them absolutely amazing if they were able to melt faces with the guitar every once in a while, but their list of influences doesn't have much in the way of notable guitarists who would offer inspiration and the fact that they're already going places means there probably won't be much time for the practice required to improve the general skill level.

 

I mean, maybe I'm wrong - during live shows does the guitarist break out a block full of rock? I just haven't heard anything from him which indicates that he has the technical ability necessary to pull off such a feat. What does everyone else think? Again, I hope I don't sound like too much of a prick making the following observation, but it seems like an appreciation of Paramore correlates with the appreciation of other bands which also have a similar problem - my point being that if you're not listening to things centred around soloing ability, it's likely not to bother you here too.

 

Do you think they're lacking in solos, or have you not considered it? Do their strengths outweigh their weakeness? Tell me what you think!

[Itsgettingcloser]

Im gonna be honest I think the drums are somewhat more simple. Jeremy is actually a pretty good bass player, I think you just need to listen harder to some of his bass lines (particularly here we go again watch some of the live versions). You'll notice he throws in a lot of little nuances that are not really noticeable on the surface but add a lot more than just playing root note bass lines. Not only though does good bass lines constitute a good player but he is a very tight bass player with some solid bass lines that seem to fit well. Jeremy in my opinion is the most talented member. The guitars are fairly simple as well but with this style of music guitar solos are not necessary to make a song good.

[aberk]

Interesting, I'll go try and find some more live videos and focus on what the bass is doing this time.

[Defiance]

i think they are all great musicians i think i saw a video of josh shredding somewhere, and jeremy is a great bass player, but thats not the kind of band paramore are, if you want fat bass and sick guitar solos with good lyrics, listen to rage against the machine tbh.

[Caboose]

In All We Know Is Falling, the bass was spot on, now he seems to use a pick in all the song for Riot but uses the fingering for AWKIF which sounds better and is more skill full. They should really boost up the bass more, you hardly hear any bass in Riot in the rhythms. sorry im a bassist.

[notoriousfat67]

i think i gotta disagree with you on the bass part. jeremy is an awesome bassist. I think the bass lines were better on awkif but still. I think you're right about the guitars though. they do seem to be lacking something but from what i hear from these new outtros they're doing with miracle and let the flames begin i think the guitars will improve.

 

have you heard fences? if you havent then you should because that song is has a really good bass line.

[travel_hymn]

I can hardly hear any bass in Riot!

 

Maybe Born for This, LTFB, Crushx3, Miz Biz...eh..

 

It would be cool if Josh had more guitar solos too.

[clowdiaa]

yea i think guitars are pretty weak...there's no substance to the chords that josh plays...i think he's much better then whats on riot! in my opinion.

[adshardcore]

I'm gonna stick up for Josh. Sure there are some bands out there that shred some seriously complicated solos and such. But that's not his type of art. His is more simple. It's like a painting. Some people are really technical and some rather simple in their execution. Just because it's simple doesn't make it weak. I find simple is sometimes more pleasing to the ear.

[The Drummer]

Zac is amazing at drums. He just turned 18..

 

I don't think they are lacking in solos, bands don't need solos... that's just for show.

[Chriss]

I definitely have to disagree about Jeremy. He's a very experienced bassist who did studio work in his teens, even having played in a funk cover band. I don't have anything more than interviews with him to back that up, but I think the reason his bass lines with Paramore are so simple is because he knows he's playing pop-punk and knows that the focus isn't supposed to be on the bass in this particular genre, especially since he now plays with a pick and has downgraded from a five-string to a four-string bass. He's recently started playing a Fender Jazz Bass, and I'm hoping on the new album, he'll bring back more active bass lines like the one from "Here We Go Again."

 

As for Josh, I think even he'd tell you he's not the most amazing guitarist in the world. He's great, but I don't think he can shred the way you'd like him to. Honestly, I enjoy the fact that there aren't five minute guitar solos in Paramore songs. In some music, it fits very nicely, but not in what Paramore plays. I like his simplicity, and I really can't even imagine a face-melting guitar solo in a Paramore song. Like you said, some of the best music is simple stuff.

 

I completely agree with you about Zac and Hayley though. Especially considering their ages, they have talent beyond their years.

[STOPthissong!]

The Jeremy part I would have to disagree with. I think he's an amazing musician and you can really see how much energy and enthusiasm he has whilst playing live shows like headbaging and running around the stage. I would imagine that would be quite hard to do whislt playing at the same time. Then again, I'm not a bass player so I wouldn't know what it's really like.

 

The Josh part I partly agree with. I DO think that paramore could do with some more solos but tbh I don't think it would go with most of their songs anyway. Paramore aren't really about complicated hardcore guitar solos. I love the simplicity but effectiveness of their music and I think that's partly what makes them a fantastic band

[Jorgi]

I don't think i agree with you, aberk... I haven't really thought out my reply here but let's see what occurs.

 

Paramore are all incredibly talented young people; the songs they produce are proof of that. The music they write is all rather typical of the age they are and the music "scene" at the moment, and yes the "pop punk" genre is actually quite a simple style in terms of song structure and the general vibe but it doesn't make it any less good.

 

I'm pretty convinced we haven't seen Paramore at their full potential just yet...

Hayley has an amazing voice, which we've seen her push in some of the later live shows they've done- for example in Dublin and Nottingham, even at the Radio 1's Big Weekend. Here we've also seen the rest of the band taking it up a notch- atmospheric fillers are being used as intros and outros in their band sets, i take again the example of the new Let The Flames Begin set they've started playing; the guitar, bass but especially the vocals and drums are being pushed and they're sounding good. So good.

 

I think it's unfortunate that in the genre Paramore sit in, it's very hard to actually push the guitars and the bass the the actual limits of the players talents... Bass lines are usually quite simple (if Pete Wentz can play one in a pop punk band, anyone can- OH BURN) but Jeremy's been trying to work along that as others have said, noticeably in Here We Go Again. Instead of just sitting in a comfortable monotonous walking bass scenario, he's jazzing it up a bit. But that's just the thing; pop punk doesn't allow a whole lot of room for improvisation in this note, we all know Jeremy played in a funk band and funk band is an incredibly technical style to play bass in. We know they're capable of it, it's just hard to encorporate or mix genres together and still get the same catchy "Paramore" sound we love.

 

The same goes for Josh and the guitar riffs. Pop Punk is designed to be catchy; pop is 'popular' afterall. The bands aberk listed (Led Zepplin, Jimi Hendrix, Thin Lizzy etc.) are all quite focussed on metal and technical guitar riffs and yes, they do it incredibly well and that's why those bands have the legendary status they do but it isn't quite what i call "catchy". Whether Josh has the ability to play these things or not is irrelevant; it just isn't what the genre/style/band needs to make them who they are. Sizzling guitar solos in the middle of the vast majority of their songs just wouldn't fit; albeit they would be impressibe, they're just unnecessary.

 

Sorry, i'm beginning to ramble, this post is so unstructured my english teacher would probably kill herself if she read it.

 

But anyway, basically i don't think it's a matter of questioning Paramore's strengths and weaknesses. What they're doing sounds good, and they're going to continue to do it (i should hope).

The progression shown from All We Know Is Falling to RIOT! is quite significant in my opinion in all respects; drums, vocals, guitars, bass, lyrics have all raised at least a bar in the debut to the second album. They're due to start writing again after they finish the final RIOT! tour (or so i hear) so who knows, maybe they'll continue raising the already high standard they're showing. From how they're progressing their live shows, i'd say this is a strong possibility.

 

So anyway, i'm stoked on the talents of all the members of Paramore, and will continue to be as long as they continue writing music.

 

Wooo etc.

[iOta]

I think Paramore doesn't need more guitar solos. Every god damn song is like a freaking cool solo! The guitar work is the biggest thing that I love in Paramore.

[eefie]

I'm pretty convinced we haven't seen Paramore at their full potential just yet...

Hayley has an amazing voice, which we've seen her push in some of the later live shows they've done- for example in Dublin and Nottingham, even at the Radio 1's Big Weekend. Here we've also seen the rest of the band taking it up a notch- atmospheric fillers are being used as intros and outros in their band sets, i take again the example of the new Let The Flames Begin set they've started playing; the guitar, bass but especially the vocals and drums are being pushed and they're sounding good. So good.

 

 

hurrah

dublin show!

okay. not even gonna read this thread

or any of these hige long posts

cause i know ill disagree

 

i seen paramore 8 days ago. in my oppinion. they dont have faults

i [along with the other 6000 of us] wer blown away by the dublin show.

dont you agree, after a show most kids are like

"omg. shes fit."

"omg. she waved at me."

"omg. hes so cute."

"omg. remember when they did this...."

and they kinda get cought up in the hype, and all star struck? well ive noticed that at all of the gigs ive been to anyway!

 

but after the dublin show. truly, everyone was blown away. every ones reaction:

"fecking hell. the talent"

literally every one i talked to after the show just couldnt get over how amazing zacs drum solo was. how incredible hayley sounded. how class josh's miz biz guitar solo was. and jeremys stage presence was [supprisingly, in my oppinon] really amazing.

 

so. yeah like, they're a pretty bunch of talented people. hahaha!

[crap. this was abit of a long post]

[waketheearth]

I'm not going to write a long post because basically Jorgi summed up exactly what I was going to say,

but if you've seen the new Miracle outro and the Let the Flames Being intro, I think it might be the "sound" you're looking for...somewhat. There's more solo's and its really..atmospheric..as Jorgi said

 

[GerBertMcWay]

I don't really know much about the technical side of music, but one thing I've always noticed with Paramore is the excellent drumming. And of course the singing as well. But as far as guitars go, I guess I think they sound okay? I mean it's not like the sound bad but I don't see anything too special about them.

[clowdiaa]

I'm not going to write a long post because basically Jorgi summed up exactly what I was going to say,

but if you've seen the new Miracle outro and the Let the Flames Being intro, I think it might be the "sound" you're looking for...somewhat. There's more solo's and its really..atmospheric..as Jorgi said

 

 

theyre new record better sound like their new live stuff cuz i love it.

[limelight]

i really like Josh's guitar solo's. i wont lie though, in most live videos they seem really weak to me. but i havnt seen them live yet, so i guess i dont really know.

as for Zac, his drum playing is great, esp for such a young person. but it just doesnt stand out. you know?

Jeremy, is my favorite. everyone knows that ahha. i think he is possibly one of the best bassist ever. no lies. he has been playing for so long and has so much experience! out of everybody, he stands out most in Paramore's music to me. (other than the vocals of course lol)

Hayley is AMAZING. she takes my breath away in everything that she does. her voice is just so....angelic! and she can use it however she wants to and it still sounds fantastic! and again, like Jeremy, she is possibly one of the best singers.

 

my opinion. :]

[waketheearth]

and btw, I'm gunna stand up for Josh and say that he is a BITCHIN guitar player.

hahaha

[clowdiaa]

i really like Josh's guitar solo's. i wont lie though, in most live videos they seem really weak to me. but i havnt seen them live yet, so i guess i dont really know.

as for Zac, his drum playing is great, esp for such a young person. but it just doesnt stand out. you know?

Jeremy, is my favorite. everyone knows that ahha. i think he is possibly one of the best bassist ever. no lies. he has been playing for so long and has so much experience! out of everybody, he stands out most in Paramore's music to me. (other than the vocals of course lol)

Hayley is AMAZING. she takes my breath away in everything that she does. her voice is just so....angelic! and she can use it however she wants to and it still sounds fantastic! and again, like Jeremy, she is possibly one of the best singers.

 

my opinion. :]

 

 

 

one of the best bassists ever??? i think he's great but there are so many better out there...Flea from RHCP, john entwistle from the who, and steve harris from iron maiden...check them out, thats the bass put to work.

[limelight]

one of the best bassists ever??? i think he's great but there are so many better out there...Flea from RHCP, john entwistle from the who, and steve harris from iron maiden...check them out, thats the bass put to work.

 

thats why i said one of the best bassist ever. :]

[travel_hymn]

Let the Flames Begin live is AWESOME.

[notoriousfat67]

one of the best bassists ever??? i think he's great but there are so many better out there...Flea from RHCP, john entwistle from the who, and steve harris from iron maiden...check them out, thats the bass put to work.

 

how could you forget john paul jones and getty lee

[Caboose]

There are too many bassist better than Jeremy. But Jeremy is in a pop-rock band. Steve harris, Getty Lee, Les Claypool are in more heavier bands.

 

Also in AWKIF Jeremy did use a 5 string bass instead of a 4 string for Riot.

 

Finger with a bass = True Bass